Transcript
Iliyana Dimitrova: Hi, welcome to the Forward Food Tech podcast, where we explore the future of food and agriculture, with the people who are taking us there. In this episode, your host, Rob ward is speaking to Ian Wheal, CEO of Breedr. Breedr is a livestock supply chain technology looking to digitize existing livestock supply chains. The big picture is that farmers are being asked to collect data for the supply chain and do reporting for various organizations, but there isn't a lot our there to actually help these farmers become more productive, sustainable, and grow their businesses using that same data. In the heart of what Breedr are doing is to help farmers market that cattle through better data and build supply chains that they can enhance through genetics, animal welfare, and more. Without further ado, here's the conversation between Rob and Ian.
Rob Ward:
Ian, welcome to our first video interview for an ag tech business, as part of the Leadership Hub that we've been running now for a number of months. I'm really interested today to hear about your business and some key insights you've had, first of all, tell us your full name and your company and what do you do?
Ian Wheal:
Yeah. Firstly, Rob, thanks for having me. And it's been great to be part of the leadership hub over the last few months. My name is Ian Wheal, I'm the founder of Breedr. Breedr is a livestock supply chain technology, looking to digitise the existing livestock supply chains. I grew up in Australia on a farm there. I met a girl, moved over here (UK) and I've been here now for 11 years and really focusing on helping British agriculture become more productive.
Rob Ward:
There's a lot going around the world on ag tech and it's interesting that you're here. I'm going to guess part because you married an English girl, but, from an ag-tech perspective , developing a business here, what has been helpful here regarding infrastructure or, grants or, investors? What are the things that are really making this place a good place to be for an early-stage ag-tech business?
Ian Wheal:
Well, it's interesting because when we were founding Breedr, we actually did consider moving to Australia and we'd been living in America for a while as well. So we did look at the options for setting it up, but what one of the things that we really liked about the UK is that the consumer is actually quite close to the farmer. So the supply chains themselves reasonably compress, they are quite close, and there's also a great level of infrastructure. And I think we saw an opportunity in what pharmacy is regulatory to actually see as something that could be productivity benefits and existing data capture, to be able to really help farmers be more productive. So, you know, it was something we definitely went through, but that was one side of it, like the supply chain. I think the other side is, you know, the investment potential here. People are looking to potentials around ag tech now, and between sort of, Europe and America is where the core of a lot of that investment is happening. And I think those hubs that are building up around ag-tech, are incredibly valuable when you're starting like some of the best farmers and early stage people came through working with early stage accelerators or agritech groups to be able to sort of learn and make mistakes, you know, go through the trough of despair before we came out the other side, from learning those things. So, you know, very, very important. And we found UK and a certain percentage of definitely of British founders to be really innovative entrepreneurial and sort of wanting to engage in what the future of agriculture is.
Rob Ward:
So tell us a bit more about Breedr and the inspiration for the idea as a founder and what makes it different and why it's likely to be the big thing in animal farming.
Ian Wheal:
I think ideas come from some level of frustration. I think having grown up on a farm, but then done a feminine supply chain, I saw a lot of red tape that farmers have been asked to do, and that was collecting data for the supply chain, reporting on stuff for Defra or communities that are out there, but there wasn't a lot of that then they use to actually help those farmers become more productive and, you know, helping using that data. So it was always the question of what farmers, people are trying to sell my data, but the reality is that data is incredibly valuable for the farmer and helps him prove out that he's delivering a good product. It helps him gain productivity and it helps him go to his customers and say, look, I'm consistently delivering a product that you want. And therefore, you know, let's build a longer-term partnership. And I think the original frustration was around EID, a lot of people at EID's in the ears of cattle that they were not getting the full value out of that. And it wasn't being used to really track productivity in the supply chain when that was a huge opportunity. So I think what makes us different is certainly at the heart of what we're trying to do is not just be a software platform that we charge farmers. We're trying to help farmers become more productive. We're trying to help farmers market their cattle through better data. We're trying to help farmers build supply chains that they can run and enhance and get more productive on the back of that through improving genetics or welfare or whatever it is serving. The heart of what we're trying to do is that, so we're not a farm management system. Although we have that, we really are a supply chain tool built for farmers and then we win when they win. So we have a financing arm that based on the farmer's data, we can offer them financing to be more productive and to grow their businesses. And so therefore, you know, we make money out of that, but we make money through helping a farmer grow his business. And I think that's what makes Breedr different is the ability to really drive farmer's businesses, not just be a cost on their bottom line for software.
Rob Ward:
On one of the conversations we had you identified the amount of waste or inefficiencies that amounted to a massive saving in area usage. Just talk that one through cause it's just mind-blowing.
Ian Wheal:
Yeah, no, I think what we're seeing and this is a problem for the whole supply chain, is that at the moment there's a huge variance of when animals are slaughtered and there's also a huge variance of the specification that they're delivered in and that variance is not good for the consumer. That variance often means that people are growing animals for longer than they should because they've had poor welfare, actually the highest growth animals and the best performing and most profitable animals and the least environmental impact comes from animals with really high welfare who have had a really happy life and have grown really well through their whole lives. And, you know, I think what we've led to at the moment when we start to look at the data that comes out of Breedr is there's a number of animals, either through bad genetic choices or bad feedback that they've got from up and down the supply chain, because they're breeding for easy carving, but that doesn't make it a productive animal in the meat supply chain. And what we're saying is that, you know, we on Breedr, our farmers are selling their animals five months earlier than what would be otherwise sold that and still getting exactly the same yield. So you can effectively take that five months and replace that with other animals are growing really well and really happy and, the productivity gain and the ability to turn over and everything else it's huge. If everyone in the UK was doing what people in Breedr are doing, then you can reduce your land use significantly, or you can reduce your feed input significantly and still produce more beef.
Rob Ward:
It seems to be a common thread within the ag tech innovations that we're seeing in lots of different places. And we cover off all over the world, the different ideas that we get to meet is that in an industry that doesn't feel like there's waste, and waste is an emotive word, but there is actually once we start to get really clever about the digital technology that sits around that, we can identify waste at the benefit of the farm and putting profit onto the farm, selling a product to the farming industry, what are the key points of resistance that you've had and how you, how have overcome that?
Ian Wheal:
Yeah. There's always skepticism, especially with new technology. I'd have to say like, especially when you're doing something as differently as what we're doing, but I think, the key points of resistance we've had is around the data. So, we're helping a farmer collect their data and our terms and conditions say that that data is the farmer's data until they share it. Or if they sell the animal, they sell the animal with a service history. So the same as you would sell a car, you sell the car with the previous service history, we would sell an animal we've what medications has had and what whites has had, and, but not confidential information or process like that thing. So I think the core thing we've had challenges around the data. And I think trying to show farmers how that data is valuable to them and how it can help them prove out their profitability. And that it is that data at the end of the day, like they are the owner of that data, but by just hoarding it and not doing anything with it is not helping them grow their business and it's not helping them become more profitable. So I think that's been one of the things we've come up with, I'll come up against something. How have we broken down those walls? Well, we've had farmers sell to farmers and farmers recommend farmers. So we've had a really good core group of farmers that have helped build video case studies, build case studies to the broader farming network. And so that's been huge. The other one is by improving the bottom line. So, you know, we've helped those farmers achieve better prices for their animals. We've helped them deliver animals in specification and at the end of the day, they're making more money and that's how you break down those barriers and deliver on what you say you're going to deliver.
Rob Ward:
I think that's fantastic. I love your straight talking. It's infectious, I hope, for the rest of the industry and it's good to hear. So when it comes to working with that data and how that integrates with other forms of data around the total farm, have you got any thoughts on that in, because the parallel we often talk about at Forward Food Tech is about the FinTech industry and how data integration with other businesses that collect data has been their success. And I'm just interested to know how you, I think you're on data beyond the ownership of it. And the aggregation of is more of a subject around integration of other people's data with other data. Have you got anything on that?
Ian Wheal:
Well, I think we've been very specific. It either helps the farmer directly, so the data integrations we do or we'll help the date, the farmer communicates better to his customer. So those are the two sides of data that we believe we need. So if you speak to a supermarket, all supermarkets nowadays want to know the antibiotic usage across their supply chain, because it's a big measure of welfare. And so if we can aggregate data from medicine hubs into Breedr or Breedr into other medicine hubs that helps that pharma prove it out. It's the farmer's health records, but it helps him then articulate to his customer, being the retail contract that he's got, what his welfare standards are. So I think we do make sure that those are two big ones. We're not in a company where we then want to aggregate when FinTech, you've seen a number of people taking that data and then repackaging and selling it out the back and that becomes a profit line, a little unknown to the user. We do see farming as something that's built much more on trust and handshakes and the expectation is that you go by your word and I think that's where agriculture does differ. So we're very conscious of that.
Rob Ward:
Yeah. It's interesting. So, good to hear about the supermarket connection, obviously, we're very passionate about that because our lives have been from production to consumption and back again, and as a business. And, I'd really like to hear how you managed to get major supermarkets involved and get them interested in what you're doing?
Ian Wheal:
Retail is involved as being, you know, actually probably a lot simpler than you would've thought. And that is because the challenge on the farm around growth rates and consistent product delivery and delivering something that the consumer wants is what is all those inefficiencies are currently driving. And if you take the farm, though, when you roll that up to the retailer, you know, you go from 200 animals to 50,000 animals, it's even more pronounced in terms of the inconsistency of supply. And so from a retail level, they want to deliver a product that a consumer comes back and buys every week because meat is a high value product and steak, especially as a high value product, and drives other purchases. So, you know, from our perspective, the supply chains are changing, people are wanting to have visibility of what's in their supply chain, and they're wanting to have predictability about what's in that supply chain as well, because that enables people to plan. It enables us to deliver a better product to consumers. And at the end of the day, it helps the processor deliver a premium produce into that supermarket, but it also helps the whole industry grow and deliver a better product for consumers. That's one of the reasons we decided to work within the UK initially, because we really do see there is good alignment between processes and retailers and the farmer trying to move in that direction.
Rob Ward:
Yeah. It's one of the highest concentrated retail markets in the world the UK and a very advanced one, it's certainly the biggest online consumer market as a percentage of population. So that integration is key, isn't it? So here's a moonshot now. We've got a number of key events happening in the world economy, we've got a new president in the US and we've got trade deals that are going to be discussed with all around the world for the UK. Where do you see the impact on different types of meats that are being reared around the world and how do distinctions happen between that and, and where do, where does Breedr fit in that story? And this is from an international perspective.
Ian Wheal:
So it's interesting, I'll take it back to our family farm. We have swine pigs, cattle and sheep on our farm in Australia. And what we're saying is that Breedr itself has started its focus on the beef industry because it's a big industry. It's the one with some of the biggest challenges around the environment and everything else, that have been portrayed in the media or at least, I mean, not that the other ones don't. I think what we are seeing is a huge amount of demand for animal protein coming out of Asia, and that demand is having huge impacts on global supply chains. So you've seen growth in exports from Argentina and Brazil skyrocket in the last few years, which, because cheap protein is still very high on the agenda of the global market, you've seen semi decline in places like Europe, where production is sort of kept down, but even COVID has now swung that back the other way. We've actually seen 16% growth in the last quarter on lamb in the UK consumption, we've seen beef consumption going up by 8%. So if you take sort of the global market dynamics with Asia, which is driving protein demand, you actually now take the COVID 'I'm cooking at home', or there's been a big switch towards meat consumption again yet, the population's growing. We need to be able to address that need to the consumer. We need to be able to do it more efficiently, because even if you take alternative proteins that are coming through and you look at all of the fake meats or whatever you want to call them that are coming through, and you look at the demand over the next 40 years. If they don't exist, there's not enough land. So we need those sort of meats to exist in parallel from a protein market perspective, to be able to deliver one the efficiency in the core animal protein market, as well as be able to deliver the global demand for protein that's coming through. So, you know, I think I'm not a big advocate of one versus the other, they all have their place and we're still seeing growth. And the growth dynamics are changing and export for the UK is going to become more relevant in a post-Brexit world as well, which is another big dynamic that's happening at the moment. So I think we will need to aim to deliver the best possible product we can as efficiently with the highest welfare standards, with the least environmental impact. And I think those goals exist no matter where you are in the world. But one thing's for sure, consumer demand isn't dropping and it's going to keep going. So how do we engage with the industry to be able to deliver that in the best possible way?
Rob Ward:
And will this identify different types of production for livestock of the same type of meat, let's say beef? And different carbon footprints that sit around that and any sort of branding to support that product. if it's one from one area of the world to another, is this something you are going to be part of?
Ian Wheal:
Yeah, we're already doing stuff in the UK, which is grass-fed supply chains versus specific breeds supply chains, like wagyu, and each of those have their own dynamic that they have to go with it. And that is part of what the consumer experience wants. They want to know where that came from, how it was delivered, you know, we were approached the other day about doing antibiotic-free detection. So you can detect each animal that's had antibiotics through the supply chain and actually deliver an antibiotic, even in amongst where you have to treat animals with antibiotics because it's bad welfare not to, but high antibiotic use is a different thing. So how do you actually build antibiotic-free supply chains that come out of it? So I think the opportunity to be able to tailor to different users when you've got the data that tracks that and therefore get price premiums where appropriate, is exciting with what technology can deliver.
Rob Ward:
I think it's an interesting space because at the end of the day COVID has also created a lot of very poor people in the world, and actually often the poorest people are in the developed countries. So we've got to have affordable food at the same time if somebody had to pay more for something because they want a welfare level that they believe in, then that distinction is important. I guess the consumer challenge here is that how honest is that and where the industry has gone wrong is that lack of integrity, and misleading labelling at least, if not, in some cases fraudulent. So what the consumer market desperately wants is that integrity right the way through, that is that is not, just veneer and just marketing wash, it's the honest situation.
Ian Wheal:
Yeah. And, you know, that's where being farmers at the heart of everything we do is very important because at the end of the day, if that farmer feels attached to what they're delivering, they put more onus and emphasis on doing a really good job for that consumer. That's where Breedr has a strong point. And that's where we want to work with processes and retailers is to be at the heart of helping the farmer be more successful because the more successful they are, the more they feel they're delivering great products into those customers and then onto the consumer. The data matters but the integrity of the actual producer matters even more. It'd be what I'd say.
Rob Ward:
That's brilliant. So what's your target as a business? I don't mean revealing anything confidential, but something, what are your business targets the next six months? I know we could talk about a moonshot landing in the next five years, but actually realistically, within the next six months, what are your key things you're focusing on, including raising, if you are still raising today and who are you looking to work with if you are raising?
Ian Wheal:
Yeah. So for us really, it's, you know, it's continuing to grow. We're in quite a strong position now in the UK market. And continuing to grow that market is really at the heart of everything we're doing and expanding things like our financing products, to be able to make sure that we can help farmers grow and get more value out of Breedr. That is at the heart of everything we're doing in the next while. We have started on cattle so for us opening up the multi-species and being able to handle pork and lamb as well that goes along, will be important. That work's pretty much there, that that's been important. If you go towards the end of that six months, we will be looking at further funding to look at international expansion because the livestock industry is global, and there are opportunities globally to be able to address a more digital supply chain. It is still a very manual supply chain in the world with lots of data silos, lots of lack of feedback and I'd say there is enough out there for us to help a lot of farmers be more efficient, but at the same time deliver better environmental impact and high welfare products.
Rob Ward:
That's fantastic. And the last six months nearly, and you've been part of the Forward Food Tech Leadership Hub, how did that work for you and what would you say to somebody who's thinking about joining that?
Ian Wheal:
Yeah, so I think what's been really exciting is you really tailored it very well to start ups at a similar sort of stage. And so a lot of the challenges that we're having, cause every business has challenges like in terms of growing and what we need to do, there's a great, really good group of people. And, you know, as well as learning from you, Rob, it's obviously been just as good to learn from all of the other founders that are in that group and, and how we can address the challenges we need today. Because whether you are delivering strawberries into a retailer or you're delivering meat into a retailer and how you help communicate the benefits through them to the consumer. There's a lot of learnings that we have as an industry, as supply chains change and compress and all of that sort of thing that I think the Leadership Hub has been brilliant for and I think there's a great, great group of people that we also have on that. And I'm looking forward to the alumni as it starts to grow because that in itself is probably going to be the most valuable bit of it, for everyone that joins.
Rob Ward:
Thank you, Ian, well it has been, it's been an absolute pleasure meeting with you, you talk straight, you deliver on efficiency while dealing with sustainability. It's an exciting space that you are working in and Breedr has got so much potential. It's been an absolute pleasure working with you. And thank you so much, good luck to your team and look forward to staying in touch and being with you for the long term, take care.
Ian Wheal:
Looking forward to it. So thanks Rob, I really appreciate it.
Rob Ward:
Thanks, thanks, Ian.
Iliyana Dimitrova:
Thanks very much for listening and we hope you stay healthy in the midst of this global pandemic. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, give us a five star review and share the podcast with your friends and colleagues. For more information and takeaways from this episode, please visit forward food.tech. See you next time!